The Thread of Cannabis Connoisseurs

[Luinbariel]

Marijuana most definitely can cause paranoia and from what I understand that can trigger panic attacks. I think it might be similar to the way allergies were explained to me. I went to an allergy doc and he told me to get rid of my cats. I said I'm not allergic to cats and he said yes you are, you just aren't allergic enough to pass your threshold. He said allergies are cumulative and you only get the reaction when you pass your threshold or tolerance for allergens and if I got rid of my cats it would help me be able to tolerate a lot more outside allergens before my allergies go haywire during allergy season.

So this could be the same thing. Maybe you and I are susceptible to panic attacks but we usually don't get them because we don't have enough stimulus to trigger them. When we smoke pot then the paranoia side effect can make us go over the threshold. There are probably other stimulus that are at work but pot could be the major thing that pushes you over the threshold each time. I think that's how it worked with me in any case.

Seemed important to point out how uncertain all of that really is. That's a lot of maybe's and what if's.

[Luinbariel]

But obviously the doctor is the best source of information as you said. Unfortunately if we asked our docs about this in the US we'd probably get arrested.

That was all I was trying to point out.

If you really think telling your doctor you've smoked marijuana will get you arrrested... I'm sorry but I can't believe that.

[Luinbariel]

OD'ing on something and speaking to your doctor about issues from occasional smoking are pretty far apart. But then I'm not you, and more importantly I'm not Nitrous. In the end it's his decision, and from here on in I'm stepping out.

[Professor Funbucks]

>weed
>ODing
lol
he'd need a good 4000 pounds smoked within 15 minutes for a lethal dose of THC.

[rumsfald]

Oh dear. What happened here?

Firstly, and most importantly, from the package insert for Strattera

Some ADHD medicines have caused sudden death in children and adolescents with serious heart problems or congenital heart defects.

If you have certain conditions, you may need a dose adjustment or special tests to safely take Strattera. Before taking this medication, tell your doctor if you have:
      a congenital heart defect;
      heart disease, a heart rhythm disorder, or recent heart attack;
      coronary artery disease;
      a history of stroke, blood clots, or heart attack;
      high or low blood pressure;
      liver disease;
      problems with urination;
      a personal or family history of mental illness, psychotic disorder, bipolar illness, depression, or suicide attempt; or
      if anyone in your family has died suddenly from a heart problem.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm. So, basically, most people who are experiencing heart-related symptoms and don't want to die would check with a doctor first. The first step in any differential diagnosis is to rule out the potentially life threatening conditions first, even if they are less likely. Google, wikipedia, and drug-user forums are not a substitute for prompt medical evaluation.

Unfortunately if we asked our docs about this in the US we'd probably get arrested.

Whoa, dude, you got accepted to law school. You can't go on shooting from the hip like that. Tarasoff holds that health professionals have an obligation to break confidentiality when there is threat of imminent harm (a series of laws have extended this to battering, sex crimes, etc). Recreational use of drugs falls waaaay short of that bar. Outside of state or federal prison healthcare professionals, or military healthcare, most normal docs are under no obligation to inform the cops that you use illegal drugs (or that you shoplift, or got an STD from a hooker, for that matter). In fact, most could probably be sued for violation of the doctor-patient relationship for disclosing such matters to the po-po without the patient's consent.

I dunno how it works with primary care doctors and doctor/patient privilege but last I knew with hospitals if you get admitted with an OD in most cases you will be arrested and the people with you will be arrested.

OD cases that present to the ER may fall under reckless endangerment statutes, and certainly are a waste of ER resources so I could see how some ERs might try to press charges to lower the incidence of such waste, but that is a far cry from the situation we are discussing. In the context of self-reported substance use to an outpatient doc, this is FUD. If there is any jurisdiction in the US where such self-disclosure could possibly result in notifying the po-po, you would be informed of that via informed consent paperwork prior to most visits.

Also if you attempt suicide or are believed to have attempted suicide it's the same thing: you get arrested and have a mandatory mental hospital stay.

If you attempt suicide and refuse to voluntarily submit to treatment most (all?) jurisdictions have some provisions for you to be admitted to the hospital involuntarily against your will (provided your risk of self-harm is sufficiently serious). But, unless what you are doing is a public nuisance, it is rarely if every considered an "arrest" and criminal charges applied.

[Turtle]

Oh dear. What happened here?

Firstly, and most importantly, from the package insert for Strattera

Some ADHD medicines have caused sudden death in children and adolescents with serious heart problems or congenital heart defects.

If you have certain conditions, you may need a dose adjustment or special tests to safely take Strattera. Before taking this medication, tell your doctor if you have:
      a congenital heart defect;
      heart disease, a heart rhythm disorder, or recent heart attack;
      coronary artery disease;
      a history of stroke, blood clots, or heart attack;
      high or low blood pressure;
      liver disease;
      problems with urination;
      a personal or family history of mental illness, psychotic disorder, bipolar illness, depression, or suicide attempt; or
      if anyone in your family has died suddenly from a heart problem.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm. So, basically, most people who are experiencing heart-related symptoms and don't want to die would check with a doctor first. The first step in any differential diagnosis is to rule out the potentially life threatening conditions first, even if they are less likely. Google, wikipedia, and drug-user forums are not a substitute for prompt medical evaluation.

Unfortunately if we asked our docs about this in the US we'd probably get arrested.

Whoa, dude, you got accepted to law school. You can't go on shooting from the hip like that. Tarasoff holds that health professionals have an obligation to break confidentiality when there is threat of imminent harm (a series of laws have extended this to battering, sex crimes, etc). Recreational use of drugs falls waaaay short of that bar. Outside of state or federal prison healthcare professionals, or military healthcare, most normal docs are under no obligation to inform the cops that you use illegal drugs (or that you shoplift, or got an STD from a hooker, for that matter). In fact, most could probably be sued for violation of the doctor-patient relationship for disclosing such matters to the po-po without the patient's consent.

I dunno how it works with primary care doctors and doctor/patient privilege but last I knew with hospitals if you get admitted with an OD in most cases you will be arrested and the people with you will be arrested.

OD cases that present to the ER may fall under reckless endangerment statutes, and certainly are a waste of ER resources so I could see how some ERs might try to press charges to lower the incidence of such waste, but that is a far cry from the situation we are discussing. In the context of self-reported substance use to an outpatient doc, this is FUD. If there is any jurisdiction in the US where such self-disclosure could possibly result in notifying the po-po, you would be informed of that via informed consent paperwork prior to most visits.

Also if you attempt suicide or are believed to have attempted suicide it's the same thing: you get arrested and have a mandatory mental hospital stay.

If you attempt suicide and refuse to voluntarily submit to treatment most (all?) jurisdictions have some provisions for you to be admitted to the hospital involuntarily against your will (provided your risk of self-harm is sufficiently serious). But, unless what you are doing is a public nuisance, it is rarely if every considered an "arrest" and criminal charges applied.

everybody loves a good rummy post

[beep beep diglett]

turtle do you just compliment rummy whenever he posts or what?

[Duck, Duck, Goose]

Goddammit rummy. Here I am, getting over it, and now I'm scared as fuck again because of you. If that doesn't fucking prove it's anxiety, I don't know what would. :-\

Also I've been taking Strattera for a good 5 years now. I'm clearly not dead yet.

[PyroZombie]

[quote author=PyroZombie link=topic=4176.msg141475#msg141475 date=1268630149]
I support weed, but I do not partake;

1.I can't seem to find that rumored "Smart-Pothead", only the annoying "Mahhn", Wondering, Trance pothead.

2.I can't imagine being high, I'm a mess with keeping everything together and a mess of anger issues. I'm afraid if I smoke some, all the rage that composes my being will evaporate and I will simply cease to exist.

and 3. Too much legal trouble.

lol
that's good.
personally, I have an anger issue, I just don't take out said rage in video games (read: Diiiiiiiiiiidzooo), and I've never had an ego loss on pot.
...
There was that one time my eyes were leaking out when I did DXM for the first time..lol
remember kids, 4th plat trips arent fun
[/quote]But it's so easy to take it out in videogames;

1.You wish death upon something,

2.it dies,

3.???,

4.Profit.

[Professor Funbucks]

[quote author=Funbucks link=topic=4176.msg141497#msg141497 date=1268652140]
[quote author=PyroZombie link=topic=4176.msg141475#msg141475 date=1268630149]
I support weed, but I do not partake;

1.I can't seem to find that rumored "Smart-Pothead", only the annoying "Mahhn", Wondering, Trance pothead.

2.I can't imagine being high, I'm a mess with keeping everything together and a mess of anger issues. I'm afraid if I smoke some, all the rage that composes my being will evaporate and I will simply cease to exist.

and 3. Too much legal trouble.

lol
that's good.
personally, I have an anger issue, I just don't take out said rage in video games (read: Diiiiiiiiiiidzooo), and I've never had an ego loss on pot.
...
There was that one time my eyes were leaking out when I did DXM for the first time..lol
remember kids, 4th plat trips arent fun
[/quote]But it's so easy to take it out in videogames;

1.You wish death upon something,

2.it dies,

3.???,

4.Profit.
[/quote]
yeah but i meant i dont rage over the mic and stuff.
im too mellow for that yelling business...
but when I'm drunk oh god thats different.

[Kirby]

[quote author=Kirby, the Axe Zealot link=topic=4176.msg141440#msg141440 date=1268615175]
[quote author=Nitrous Oxide link=topic=4176.msg141418#msg141418 date=1268605239]
[quote author=Kirby, the Axe Zealot link=topic=4176.msg141403#msg141403 date=1268601134]
[quote author=Funbucks link=topic=4176.msg141402#msg141402 date=1268600515]
So my roommie and I have started to go out and look for places to smoke.
We've smoked on a bunch of buildings so far lol

If the local PD doesn't have a garage in which the cruisers are parked overnight, grab a big bong, and go hit a bong while sittin on the hood of a cruiser, it's mad fun.


;D


[/quote]yeah but we live in Canada, so the cops won't care lol
[/quote]


If I didn't have the funnest job in the world....
[/quote]

do tell
[/quote]



I work for a company that makes high-end electonic communications filters, they go into applications such as: Identify Friend-Foe modules in fighter jets, GPS satelites, the Mars Rover, if you have a speed pass for a highway system, I probably built somthing that's inside of that, remotely guided missiles and bombs, all sorts of neat shit that has a need to communicate 2 way with extreme power and reliability.

Basically I get to sit at a work bench, play with extremely expensive legos and be really baked all day in a company where only one person isn't baked, all day.

[Turtle]

turtle do you just compliment rummy whenever he posts or what?

No because i read it and lol'd











but i also learned

[Luinbariel]

And then everyone missed Rummy's point and the whole conversation started again.

[beep beep diglett]

they legalized it here

[beep beep diglett]

fuck that wasnt what my original post was

actually its not complete legalization but doctors will hand out licenses to bake to almost anyone who has a chronic problem

[copulatingduck]

"i am chronically low on weed"

[rumsfald]

Oh I looked into it and apparently it's a Florida law called the Baker Act. I think that there are some unique aspects of Florida law that are at play here that I was concerned about, but I haven't been to law school yet so I don't really know the particulars which is why I couched my language.

I looked at your Baker Act, and, though I am not acting as a lawyer in posting this (or more importantly, I am not your lawyer when I post this), it is my personal opinion that the involuntary provisions don't look much different at all from other states or the federal level. I think you might find that criterion B of that act requires a higher standard of evidence than you might think.

url here
394.463  Involuntary examination.--

(1)  CRITERIA.--A person may be taken to a receiving facility for involuntary examination if there is reason to believe that the person has a mental illness and because of his or her mental illness:

(a)
1.  The person has refused voluntary examination after conscientious explanation and disclosure of the purpose of the examination; or

2.  The person is unable to determine for himself or herself whether examination is necessary; and

(b)
1.  Without care or treatment, the person is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself; such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; and it is not apparent that such harm may be avoided through the help of willing family members or friends or the provision of other services; or

2.  There is a substantial likelihood that without care or treatment the person will cause serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others in the near future, as evidenced by recent behavior.

So here, a medically emergent OD might qualify (which should be obvious, but e.g., alcohol OD, alcohol withdrawal, opiate OD, cocaine OD, gold glue huffing guy). THC intoxication alone probably would get you a drug screen if you presented to the ER but likely wouldn't get you admitted if your vital signs were a-ok and someone agreed to take you home and babysit your punk ass. Reporting THC use to a primary care physician is in no way " real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being."

Think about it, in order to involuntarily examine a person you need to violate some serious constitutional rights (free agency, privacy, self-determination, to avoid self-incrimination, etc.). That requires a stringent standard.

Also, just because some hick southern cops did it to you and/or your fratboy friends does not mean it was legal. You are a candidate to be an Officer of the Court, start acting like it.


ps @ Luin - I'm free to say my piece, you are free to say your piece, and others are free to take it or leave it. I sleep at night knowing I said what I felt needed to be said, no regrets, after that it is up to other adults to worry about themselves.

[Kirby]

"i am chronically low on weed"

Duck wins this thread.

[Luinbariel]

ps @ Luin - I'm free to say my piece, you are free to say your piece, and others are free to take it or leave it. I sleep at night knowing I said what I felt needed to be said, no regrets, after that it is up to other adults to worry about themselves.

You are right. This is for you.

[copulatingduck]

not really. I feel sort of bad posting. Rummy's teaching me a lot, I'm usually too lazy for learning, and I'm mucking the thread up. Ty Rummy for taking a timeout from your regular schedule of (sometimes) insightful, aptly delivered jokes to be a little serious :-*